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	<title>Comments on: Ferris Bueller and Kanban&#8211;Anyone? Anyone?</title>
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	<link>http://www.rallydev.com/agileblog/2009/05/ferris-bueller-and-kanban-anyone-anyone/</link>
	<description>Adopt, Scale and Succeed with Agile Development</description>
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		<title>By: Jean Tabaka</title>
		<link>http://www.rallydev.com/agileblog/2009/05/ferris-bueller-and-kanban-anyone-anyone/#comment-3742</link>
		<dc:creator>Jean Tabaka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 20:45:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rallydev.com/agileblog/?p=1953#comment-3742</guid>
		<description>Scott,

Michael Kennedy&#039;s books on new product development with Lean are also two great sources for paying attention to lessons about development not manufacturing.

My point in this article is about long-term reflection on fixes that may fail. This can be applied in any systems context. Product development is one.  

Thanks for your comment. Jean</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott,</p>
<p>Michael Kennedy&#8217;s books on new product development with Lean are also two great sources for paying attention to lessons about development not manufacturing.</p>
<p>My point in this article is about long-term reflection on fixes that may fail. This can be applied in any systems context. Product development is one.  </p>
<p>Thanks for your comment. Jean</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Lacey</title>
		<link>http://www.rallydev.com/agileblog/2009/05/ferris-bueller-and-kanban-anyone-anyone/#comment-3741</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Lacey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:32:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rallydev.com/agileblog/?p=1953#comment-3741</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not as well versed in Lean as I&#039;d like to be, but it has always mystified me that what is often a custom endeavor, software,  be compared to the highly repeatable, same input, same process, same output world of manufacturing.   

In a similar discussion I was advised to read (yet to have read)the book,  &quot;The Toyota Product Development System: Integrating People, Process And Technology&quot; by James M. Morgan and Jeffrey K. Liker (Hardcover - Mar 25, 2006) 

TPDS is about engineering and design, the product development lifecycle, not the manufacturing lifecycle.   From a 50,000 foot view, this would seem like the place to start, not TPS.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not as well versed in Lean as I&#8217;d like to be, but it has always mystified me that what is often a custom endeavor, software,  be compared to the highly repeatable, same input, same process, same output world of manufacturing.   </p>
<p>In a similar discussion I was advised to read (yet to have read)the book,  &#8220;The Toyota Product Development System: Integrating People, Process And Technology&#8221; by James M. Morgan and Jeffrey K. Liker (Hardcover &#8211; Mar 25, 2006) </p>
<p>TPDS is about engineering and design, the product development lifecycle, not the manufacturing lifecycle.   From a 50,000 foot view, this would seem like the place to start, not TPS.</p>
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		<title>By: Jean Tabaka</title>
		<link>http://www.rallydev.com/agileblog/2009/05/ferris-bueller-and-kanban-anyone-anyone/#comment-3299</link>
		<dc:creator>Jean Tabaka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 May 2009 23:58:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rallydev.com/agileblog/?p=1953#comment-3299</guid>
		<description>Wayne,

Thank you for your comment. My viewpoints come from how I have heard others talk about Kanban adoptions. Look at Alan Shalloway&#039;s comment to see where he comes from on this as well. All of your points are well taken and solid. I just don&#039;t tend to hear others express this same robustness around Kanban. Now I will challenge you slightly. I don&#039;t see you emphasize long-term reflection for &quot;Seeing the whole.&quot; What practices would you say that you do that support this &quot;long term&quot; reflection as one of the tools for continuous improvement? I would suggest that this is all the more important when you are scaling Kanban practices across an organization. Could you tell us more about your reflection processes in this scale?  Thanks, Jean</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wayne,</p>
<p>Thank you for your comment. My viewpoints come from how I have heard others talk about Kanban adoptions. Look at Alan Shalloway&#8217;s comment to see where he comes from on this as well. All of your points are well taken and solid. I just don&#8217;t tend to hear others express this same robustness around Kanban. Now I will challenge you slightly. I don&#8217;t see you emphasize long-term reflection for &#8220;Seeing the whole.&#8221; What practices would you say that you do that support this &#8220;long term&#8221; reflection as one of the tools for continuous improvement? I would suggest that this is all the more important when you are scaling Kanban practices across an organization. Could you tell us more about your reflection processes in this scale?  Thanks, Jean</p>
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		<title>By: Jean Tabaka</title>
		<link>http://www.rallydev.com/agileblog/2009/05/ferris-bueller-and-kanban-anyone-anyone/#comment-3298</link>
		<dc:creator>Jean Tabaka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 May 2009 23:54:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rallydev.com/agileblog/?p=1953#comment-3298</guid>
		<description>Alan,  thanks for your comment. I have been stressing this a lot lately (as I know you do :- ). Go back to the Lean fundamentals and ensure you haven&#039;t lost something or thrown something out inadvertently as you adopt Kanban. &quot;Seeing the whole&quot;, looking at the entire value stream map, and reflecting long term for unintended consequences and fixes that fail are practices I fear are getting lost when people say they are &quot;doing Kanban&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alan,  thanks for your comment. I have been stressing this a lot lately (as I know you do :- ). Go back to the Lean fundamentals and ensure you haven&#8217;t lost something or thrown something out inadvertently as you adopt Kanban. &#8220;Seeing the whole&#8221;, looking at the entire value stream map, and reflecting long term for unintended consequences and fixes that fail are practices I fear are getting lost when people say they are &#8220;doing Kanban&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Project Management Tools &#38; Techniques</title>
		<link>http://www.rallydev.com/agileblog/2009/05/ferris-bueller-and-kanban-anyone-anyone/#comment-3074</link>
		<dc:creator>Project Management Tools &#38; Techniques</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 May 2009 22:19:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rallydev.com/agileblog/?p=1953#comment-3074</guid>
		<description>Kanban raises awareness of those problems. Continuous improvement doesn&#039;t mean fixing problems as they happen -- it means being aware of what causes problems, and going after the root cause. It&#039;s like giving your company better reflexes, or keener senses: instead of a sloth-like &quot;Hm, I do believe I started experiencing discomfort some time ago,&quot; it&#039;s &quot;YEOUCH!&quot; Those quick reactions translate into an effort to fix the problem before it starts.

There&#039;s actually a great line from &lt;em&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0071392319?ie=UTF8&amp;tag=byrnesmarketv-20&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;camp=1789&amp;creative=9325&amp;creativeASIN=0071392319&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Toyota Way&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt; about this:

&lt;blockquote&gt;TPS experts get very impatient and even irritated when they hear people rave and focus on kanban as if it is the Toyota Production System. Kanban is a fascinating concept and it is fun to watch&#8230; When is the kanban triggered? How are the quantities calculated? What do you do if a kanban gets lost? But &lt;strong&gt;that is not the point&lt;/strong&gt;&#8230; The challenge is to &lt;strong&gt;develop a learning organization that will find ways to reduce the number of and thereby reduce and finally eliminate the inventory buffer&lt;/strong&gt;&#8230; So kanban is something you strive to get rid of, not to be proud of.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That&#039;s what Kanban is really all about. Here&#039;s more on the &lt;a href=&quot;http://thinkprojectmanagement.blogspot.com/2009/05/kanban-its-tool-and-theres-no-such.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Kanban discussion&lt;/a&gt; that lots of folks have been having lately.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kanban raises awareness of those problems. Continuous improvement doesn&#8217;t mean fixing problems as they happen &#8212; it means being aware of what causes problems, and going after the root cause. It&#8217;s like giving your company better reflexes, or keener senses: instead of a sloth-like &#8220;Hm, I do believe I started experiencing discomfort some time ago,&#8221; it&#8217;s &#8220;YEOUCH!&#8221; Those quick reactions translate into an effort to fix the problem before it starts.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s actually a great line from <em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0071392319?ie=UTF8&amp;tag=byrnesmarketv-20&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;camp=1789&amp;creative=9325&amp;creativeASIN=0071392319" rel="nofollow">The Toyota Way</a></em> about this:</p>
<blockquote><p>TPS experts get very impatient and even irritated when they hear people rave and focus on kanban as if it is the Toyota Production System. Kanban is a fascinating concept and it is fun to watch&#8230; When is the kanban triggered? How are the quantities calculated? What do you do if a kanban gets lost? But <strong>that is not the point</strong>&#8230; The challenge is to <strong>develop a learning organization that will find ways to reduce the number of and thereby reduce and finally eliminate the inventory buffer</strong>&#8230; So kanban is something you strive to get rid of, not to be proud of.</p></blockquote>
<p>That&#8217;s what Kanban is really all about. Here&#8217;s more on the <a href="http://thinkprojectmanagement.blogspot.com/2009/05/kanban-its-tool-and-theres-no-such.html" rel="nofollow">Kanban discussion</a> that lots of folks have been having lately.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Shalloway</title>
		<link>http://www.rallydev.com/agileblog/2009/05/ferris-bueller-and-kanban-anyone-anyone/#comment-3015</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Shalloway</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 May 2009 01:46:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rallydev.com/agileblog/?p=1953#comment-3015</guid>
		<description>Great thought that we must always look to see if there are un-intended consequences for things.  That&#039;s why Lean&#039;s (the foundation of Kanban) &quot;optimize the whole&quot; is so important.  Many things we do in the Agile world are a reaction to our more or less recent past.  They are not necessarily long term solutions and therefore likely have unintended consequences.  Kanban, applied to less than the full value stream may fall into this - but I suspect not when applied to the whole.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great thought that we must always look to see if there are un-intended consequences for things.  That&#8217;s why Lean&#8217;s (the foundation of Kanban) &#8220;optimize the whole&#8221; is so important.  Many things we do in the Agile world are a reaction to our more or less recent past.  They are not necessarily long term solutions and therefore likely have unintended consequences.  Kanban, applied to less than the full value stream may fall into this &#8211; but I suspect not when applied to the whole.</p>
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		<title>By: Jean Tabaka</title>
		<link>http://www.rallydev.com/agileblog/2009/05/ferris-bueller-and-kanban-anyone-anyone/#comment-3013</link>
		<dc:creator>Jean Tabaka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 May 2009 01:16:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rallydev.com/agileblog/?p=1953#comment-3013</guid>
		<description>Yes, Chris. That is the point Ben Stein made in his NYT article: it was a fix that even at the time might have warranted more analysis. Oddly, as Stein points out, even with the doubts around the act, when the Depression did hit with its full force, most economists believed that Smoot-Hawley was inconsequential. That notion continued for quite some time....until recently.

That is my point WRT Kanban. I believe that long term views over potential &quot;fixes that failed&quot; or &quot;unintended consequences&quot; are vital to the success of a Lean adoption. Day-to-day inspections may only lead to strings of fixes that fail. That means a string of re-learning and that is waste. Longer term trending that takes into account delayed feedback is key.

Thanks for you comment. Jean</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Chris. That is the point Ben Stein made in his NYT article: it was a fix that even at the time might have warranted more analysis. Oddly, as Stein points out, even with the doubts around the act, when the Depression did hit with its full force, most economists believed that Smoot-Hawley was inconsequential. That notion continued for quite some time&#8230;.until recently.</p>
<p>That is my point WRT Kanban. I believe that long term views over potential &#8220;fixes that failed&#8221; or &#8220;unintended consequences&#8221; are vital to the success of a Lean adoption. Day-to-day inspections may only lead to strings of fixes that fail. That means a string of re-learning and that is waste. Longer term trending that takes into account delayed feedback is key.</p>
<p>Thanks for you comment. Jean</p>
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		<title>By: Wayne Simacek</title>
		<link>http://www.rallydev.com/agileblog/2009/05/ferris-bueller-and-kanban-anyone-anyone/#comment-3009</link>
		<dc:creator>Wayne Simacek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 May 2009 00:07:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rallydev.com/agileblog/?p=1953#comment-3009</guid>
		<description>I guess my take on Kanban is not the &quot;quick fix&quot; that yours is, and I don&#039;t see it just relating to manufacturing as you imply. 

I believe Kanban can tie in nicely with any service-oriented culture. I think by focusing on reducing the lag between the request and the delivery you positively impact the feedback loop and increase customer confidence in what you&#039;re doing. I also like the prioritization back to goals/epics and scenarios down to stories.

I also think that Kanban scales nicely for bigger organizations. Even though you can still have teams and XP programming practices, you can also introduce specialized queues like QA and watch the individual queues for bottlenecks or the risk of drawing certain queues down too low causing under-utilization.

I actually went through an experience where we were getting buried by our backlog several months ago, and had to freeze the growth of the queue. You could still add higher priorities, but only on canceling the bottom-feeders. I think it really gave our whole IT organization a real boost.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess my take on Kanban is not the &#8220;quick fix&#8221; that yours is, and I don&#8217;t see it just relating to manufacturing as you imply. </p>
<p>I believe Kanban can tie in nicely with any service-oriented culture. I think by focusing on reducing the lag between the request and the delivery you positively impact the feedback loop and increase customer confidence in what you&#8217;re doing. I also like the prioritization back to goals/epics and scenarios down to stories.</p>
<p>I also think that Kanban scales nicely for bigger organizations. Even though you can still have teams and XP programming practices, you can also introduce specialized queues like QA and watch the individual queues for bottlenecks or the risk of drawing certain queues down too low causing under-utilization.</p>
<p>I actually went through an experience where we were getting buried by our backlog several months ago, and had to freeze the growth of the queue. You could still add higher priorities, but only on canceling the bottom-feeders. I think it really gave our whole IT organization a real boost.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Gardner</title>
		<link>http://www.rallydev.com/agileblog/2009/05/ferris-bueller-and-kanban-anyone-anyone/#comment-3005</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Gardner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 23:02:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rallydev.com/agileblog/?p=1953#comment-3005</guid>
		<description>When Smoot-Hawley came up for signature, economists, bankers, and others urged Hoover to veto it.  Even at the time, many believed (rightfully) the consumer would be hurt and foreign markets for farmers would be shutdown.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When Smoot-Hawley came up for signature, economists, bankers, and others urged Hoover to veto it.  Even at the time, many believed (rightfully) the consumer would be hurt and foreign markets for farmers would be shutdown.</p>
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